Preparing for the Next Pandemic – What Lessons Have we Learned ?

0:03
Good morning everybody.

0:04
Thank you for joining us for Thursday’s first panel session,

0:09
which is entitled Preparing for the Next Pandemic.

0:12
What lessons have we Learned? Um, I’m Neil Nixon.

0:16
I’m the conference director for this event,

0:18
and I’m delighted to be joined

0:20
by Duncan Holsworth from GV Health,

0:23
by Matt Dean from ISS from Paul

0:27
through from the IWSA morning.

0:30
And on the end there, Wes Smith from the Clean Space.

0:33
Perhaps I could just ask each of you by way

0:36
of introduction just to say a little bit about who you are,

0:39
what you do, and then we’ll get started on the discussion.

0:43
Brilliant. So my name’s Duncan Hodsworth.

0:46
Um, I’m the Technical Director at GV Health.

0:49
We are a science

0:50
and technology company specializing in,

0:52
in infection prevention and control solutions.

0:54
So that covers a whole range

0:55
of different disinfectants cleaners.

0:57
Um, what else have we got?

1:00
We’ve got spill decontamination

1:01
systems, those types of things.

1:03
Um, so we are very much working towards innovation

1:06
development, um, looking to see how we can help.

1:10
Matt. Good morning everyone. Uh, Matt Dean from ISS uk.

1:14
You’ve probably all heard of ISS.

1:17
Um, my role within the organization is to design

1:21
how we clean and what to clean with.

1:23
So in the event there is another pandemic,

1:26
then it will probably be sit with me to draw up a plan as to

1:31
how do we respond to that, um, as part, as well as working

1:34
for ISS and also a board member for CSSA.

1:38
Paul Morning, everybody. Uh, Paul Repe.

1:41
Uh, I retired from OCS, uh, last March.

1:45
Um, former BCC Chairman.

1:47
And, uh, recently this year, uh, takeover as the chair

1:52
of the IWSA, the IWE,

1:55
which is the Independent Washroom Services Association.

1:59
And we consist of around 34 member

2:03
companies all independently owned

2:06
that provide washroom services.

2:09
I’m Wes. Good morning everyone. Uh, I’m we Smith.

2:12
I’m with the Keen Space.

2:13
We’re a commercial cleaning company operating outta the UK

2:16
for the last 21 years.

2:17
And for my sins, I’ve also spent 21

2:19
years in the cleaning industry.

2:21
Um, I’m the sales and marketing director

2:23
for the clean space at the moment

2:24
and look forward to being part of the panel.

2:27
Thank you. Well, this is obviously a very broad topic

2:31
and we could, uh, we, it could go in any direction I,

2:34
I imagine, but we have a, a great panel of, of scientists,

2:38
of product specialists, of contractors.

2:41
So we should get a very rounded view on what went well,

2:45
what went badly last time,

2:47
and what we might do to prepare better for a pandemic,

2:52
should we be faced with another one in the future.

2:55
So, well, let’s start with Duncan

2:57
as he’s sitting near us to me.

2:59
Um, what, from a, a science perspective, maybe

3:03
what did go well last time

3:05
and what could we do be, could we have done better

3:08
with the benefit of hindsight?

3:11
Well, I think there was a, there are a number

3:13
of existing chemistries

3:14
and, um, disinfectants, for example,

3:17
that were very effective.

3:19
Um, maybe the opportunity was

3:22
that they weren’t necessarily using

3:24
the best way they could have been.

3:25
Um, you know, for example, there’s a lot of, lot

3:28
of chlorine based disinfectants that were used.

3:30
And although it’s an incredibly effective chemistry, um,

3:33
there’s some environments it was maybe being

3:35
overused a little bit.

3:36
And from my perspective, it was looking at the system

3:40
as a whole and looking at, well, actually we need

3:42
to be incorporating cleaning and disinfection together,

3:44
making sure that we are incorporating that

3:46
with the best training, the best methodology,

3:48
the best auditing, um,

3:50
and making sure that we inform all the key decision makers,

3:52
particularly sort of the senior buyers within the relevant

3:55
organizations, um, as to, you know, how to not just buy,

3:59
but also how to use the products properly.

4:02
So I think there are a number

4:03
of very effective products used.

4:05
Um, at the time. The way it can be done better is making

4:07
sure that we inform and educate so

4:09
that people know best practice.

4:13
And Matt, as a product specialist, and,

4:16
and you know, the supply chain was something

4:18
that came under enormous pressure at the start of the,

4:22
uh, of the pandemic.

4:23
What have we done to secure that, make that likely

4:27
to be better next time around? Do you think?

4:30
I think as we discussed it previously, is that the,

4:34
the last pandemic treat that as a dry run is that was our,

4:38
that was our practice.

4:40
Um, we probably all had a business continuity plan in place.

4:46
Maybe it never really saw the lighter day, um,

4:49
until we actually then face the pandemic.

4:52
But now we see the value in having that kind of document.

4:56
And as part of that plan is, well, what,

5:00
what do we do about our supply chain?

5:02
If in the event something like that happened again, so prior

5:06
to, um, COVID-19, that was my responsibility

5:10
for the organization I worked in.

5:11
Um, local authority is

5:14
what do we do in the event of a flu pandemic?

5:17
Now, when I sat down to write that, I was, uh, criticized

5:22
for being a little bit too out there.

5:24
That’s potentially none of this would actually happen.

5:27
Well, several months later it did.

5:29
And unfortunately, some of the wild ideas that I’d come up

5:33
with actually then was put into place.

5:35
So, um, one

5:37
of the things was actually the supply chain in terms of

5:40
what do we, what do we learn from the,

5:42
the previous experience is, well, we, it was a case

5:46
of we just grab whatever was available,

5:49
but now we can actually sit down

5:50
and discuss with our supply chain, our suppliers, well,

5:54
what will happen next?

5:55
And that’s the key thing is let’s not wait

5:58
until the next one before we have that discussion.

6:00
Treat it as part of your business continuity plan

6:03
is if in the event it does happen again, what will you do

6:08
to, to support us in our, in an in r operation.

6:11
Now, if you’re a supplier, that’s a,

6:12
that’s a completely different discussion.

6:14
I don’t have any of the experience from a supplier’s point

6:17
of view, but if you’re a building contractor, you,

6:19
your client will be relying on you to be able to make those,

6:23
um, decisions, put those actions in place.

6:25
But you can only do that with all of the network

6:28
of suppliers that you, you have

6:29
to help you run your business.

6:34
I know none of us on here are suppliers,

6:36
but do you think your suppliers have a more robust process

6:40
now by which they would be able

6:42
to ensure should you need product quickly,

6:44
you would get product quickly?

6:46
Yeah, I think the, the lessons learned was

6:48
that everyone was caught out.

6:50
And so therefore, although it might not necessarily sit on

6:54
a, a regular discussion as part

6:56
of our quarterly business reviews, it, it is a discussion

6:59
that has been had that in the event it does happen again,

7:03
we’ve had those assurances from our suppliers

7:06
that they would be able to cope with that demand

7:08
because it, it was one of those things

7:10
that nobody probably expected it to happen, but it did.

7:13
Um, and, and we were caught out.

7:15
Um, we did the best we could.

7:17
Um, and we, we just need to make sure that next time round

7:22
we we’re, we’re, we’re, we’ve got

7:24
that reassurance from the supply network that

7:26
what will happen, that there is a plan.

7:30
Paul, I think the washroom is obviously recognized as one

7:34
of the first lines of defense in, uh,

7:37
in tackling these types of situations.

7:40
Do you want to tell us a little bit about your new

7:43
association and then also more broadly about the role

7:47
of the washroom and

7:48
how we can better prepare washroom environments to,

7:52
to help counter such an event in the future?

7:55
Yeah, of course. Uh, I mean, one of the big,

7:58
big plus points if there was in terms of covid,

8:02
was the high profile it gave to the, uh, cleaning

8:06
and hygiene industry.

8:07
Uh, it was a shame, it had to be a pandemic to, uh,

8:11
to get our cleaning staff

8:13
and all of our supply staff recognized.

8:16
But you know what, it, out

8:18
of some adversity came a little bit of good there.

8:21
Um, I think the washroom part of that is

8:25
absolutely vital, uh, in terms of

8:28
how we provide those clean environments so

8:32
that people can maintain even simple hand hygiene,

8:36
which has such a positive effect on, um,

8:39
on stopping the spread of such, um, diseases.

8:43
Um, I think one of the, one of the problems we have is

8:48
that I’m not sure that we’ve learned too much from it

8:52
because it appears that many, many, uh,

8:56
organizations have gone back to pre pandemic levels.

9:00
And, you know, there’s evidence that a lot of the hygiene

9:05
practices that were in place, um, before covid

9:09
and then then were enhanced

9:11
because of the pandemic have suddenly disappeared again.

9:14
And, uh, and people are going back to basic hygiene.

9:18
Well, as an association, our members are really keen

9:22
to ensure that that doesn’t happen.

9:25
Um, we go around

9:26
and we see so many san, um,

9:29
sanitizers are dispensers that are empty.

9:33
You go into public spaces, restaurants, pubs,

9:38
anywhere, and you’ll find empty sanitization dispensers,

9:42
which is such a shame.

9:44
So our members are working hard behind the scenes.

9:47
You all alluded to terms

9:48
of making sure there’s sufficient resources available.

9:52
They’re working hard to make sure

9:54
that those resources are there

9:56
and advising all of the businesses that, you know,

9:59
hand hygiene hygiene in the washroom is absolutely vital

10:04
and will help us prevent a recurrence of

10:06
what happened a few years ago.

10:09
Yeah, absolutely.

10:10
Whereas as a, somebody providing a frontline service

10:14
as well, what, what changes have you made as a contractor?

10:18
You know, how have you, um, uh, uh, evolved your training

10:22
and education processes to your staff?

10:24
You know, is that been something that’s continued to evolve

10:28
or as Paul says, have we all slipped backwards a little bit?

10:33
Yeah. Uh, I think initially at the onset of, of the kind

10:37
of the outbreak, you had Tinas

10:40
overnight becoming frontline workers.

10:41
Um, and in many cases,

10:43
unless they spent time in the healthcare environment,

10:45
in large part, they hadn’t received formalized training on

10:48
proper infection control.

10:50
Um, I’m not saying that’s unanimous,

10:52
but it certainly was very much the case.

10:54
And overnight, you had to find ways to roll out

10:57
and mobilize efficient training to equip frontline workers

11:00
of proper infection control, uh, correct PPE usage, uh,

11:04
proper cleaning and sanitization and disinfection protocol.

11:08
Uh, so that,

11:09
I think from the onset has made you think about the delivery

11:13
and method in which you’re going to spend time training,

11:17
cleaning operatives, your supervisors,

11:19
right up the line into your management teams.

11:21
And one of the things with the coming of digital age,

11:24
it’s about the use of technology to try

11:27
and speed up the efficiency

11:28
and the effectiveness of that training.

11:29
So what we’re finding, particularly within ourselves,

11:31
the clean space is spending a lot more time focusing on

11:34
digitizing as much of the training program as possible,

11:37
making sure that we don’t leave simple training, uh,

11:41
and not a nice to have infection control training.

11:44
It’s actually a must as part of the process

11:46
and making sure that comes part of your training modules

11:48
as you train your cleaning officer operatives

11:51
and supervision and teams.

11:52
I think there’s also an element of making sure you lean in

11:55
with your service supply chain partners, um,

11:58
so the experts sitting on the right that can help come in

12:01
and support the business with the right type

12:03
of training and understanding.

12:05
IE train the trainer, right?

12:07
Get them to understand the real background

12:09
and theory behind what it,

12:10
what infection control looks like, the prevention

12:13
of future virus outbreaks,

12:14
and how to then instill that down, down, cascade

12:19
that down the level to the sort of the cleaning operative.

12:21
And I think being efficient and effective in that is part

12:25
and parcel of the responsibility of the cleaning, uh,

12:28
business and the cleaning industry.

12:30
Making sure we can digitize it and deliver it quickly

12:32
and efficiently is probably the best way forward,

12:34
and that’s what we are focusing on at the moment.

12:36
Yeah, I think, uh, picking up on something Paul said, um,

12:41
you know, the, the COVID did elevate the, um, profile

12:45
of our industry for a while,

12:47
but it was quite a short period as it turned out.

12:50
And there were a number of, um, initiatives put in place.

12:55
The British Cleaning Council worked very hard to

12:57
create an A PPG within government, um, which

13:02
has slightly derailed.

13:03
Um, did we miss an opportunity or is there an opportunity?

13:08
One of the things that has come up in a number of sessions,

13:12
uh, during the conference this year has been

13:14
how do we attract good young, new talent to the industry?

13:18
And one of the ways we should be able to do that is

13:21
by the industry having a higher profile.

13:23
Do you think as a panel, we’ve, we’ve lost that opportunity

13:26
or have we merely missed it

13:28
and there’s still an opportunity there, happy for you to,

13:33
Happy to answer.

13:34
Uh, I don’t think we’ve missed the opportunity.

13:36
I think it’s, uh, it’s maybe just took a

13:39
bit more of a backseat.

13:40
Uh, obviously we had the elections

13:43
and sort everything sort of came to a bit of a halt.

13:46
Um, however, I think we all have a responsibility

13:50
to get that momentum going.

13:52
And, um, you know, the A PPG was formed with the BCC,

13:56
uh, it’s still there,

13:58
but we need to really get some traction.

14:00
We need to put some pressure on the MPS to, um,

14:04
support our industry.

14:06
Um, if, if you think about key worker status,

14:10
when I was in the chair, one of our key themes was,

14:13
was trying to get everybody within the industry,

14:16
whether they were a, a cleaning operative

14:18
or whether they were a washroom operative,

14:20
whether they were a supplier, was

14:22
to get them key worker status.

14:25
And we still haven’t got that.

14:27
And if we, if we have another pandemic tomorrow, all

14:31
of our team will be unable to work until we can get,

14:35
get them, um, that key worker status.

14:38
Yep.

14:41
I mean, I dunno, uh, Duncan, you,

14:45
you’ve made comment to me in the past about, uh, you know,

14:48
that, that that responsibility, if you like,

14:53
on the cleaning sector,

14:54
there’s almost a responsibility on the cleaning sector

14:57
to educate the public rather than relying on

15:00
politicians to educate the public.

15:02
Is is that a fair summary of how you feel about it?

15:06
Absolutely. Is IPC sort of solution providers,

15:09
which GV Health are, um, there’s a lot that we can do

15:12
to educate and inform, um, that’s both at a public level

15:16
but also at a government level.

15:17
And I think a big part of this is, is engagement.

15:19
And actually, you know, there’s a lot of capability

15:21
and talent today in this room,

15:23
and it’s everybody coming together as a single voice

15:26
to really explain to government as well.

15:28
And also to link it back to what the collateral cost of all

15:31
of this is, which is human lives at the end of the day.

15:33
And trying to continually reiterate that.

15:35
We’ve had some amazing speakers over the last couple

15:38
of days, you know, asking the question, you know, instead

15:41
of going, how expensive is it gonna cost us

15:44
to be invest in training?

15:45
It’s more flipping on its head

15:47
and well, you know, to create dealer accountings,

15:49
it’s, can we afford not to?

15:51
What is the damage of not doing this?

15:53
And I think what that will do is it will inform

15:57
and educate new people in our industry

15:59
and bringing new talent in.

16:00
And I think hopefully it will reiterate the importance

16:03
of continually investing in ongoing sort of biosecurity.

16:09
Yeah, I mean, Danny, Matt,

16:11
Yeah, it was mentioned yesterday is

16:13
that cleaning touches everybody,

16:15
every aspect of everyone’s lives.

16:17
So whether it’s a, uh, a topic that politicians want

16:22
to talk about or not, to some extent,

16:25
it may even be irrelevant

16:26
because we have a relationship with every single

16:30
organization that pretty much exists in this country,

16:34
and we clean their buildings.

16:36
Um, whether that’s a public building

16:37
or a private building, the fact is

16:40
cleaning takes place everywhere.

16:41
So we all have a responsibility as contractors to ensure

16:44
that we raise the profile with our clients,

16:49
explain the importance of what it is that we do.

16:51
If they don’t get it already that way every,

16:54
whether we the message goes out from a public media

16:57
or whether we do it by stealth through our clients,

17:01
the message will get out there.

17:02
Um, we just need to keep on chipping away, uh,

17:05
and explaining the importance of what it is that we do.

17:09
Yeah, I think messaging has been, um, is always

17:13
that the key to this, I, I spoke

17:14
to somebody from TFL recently who said one

17:17
of their biggest challenges now is getting people

17:20
to hold handrails on escalators.

17:22
Their biggest source

17:23
of accidents on London Underground is people

17:26
falling down escalators.

17:28
And he said, we spent two years telling people not

17:30
to touch anything and, and now we’ve gotta try

17:33
and teach them to touch them.

17:34
Now in that instance, they’re using technology

17:37
to clean those handrails,

17:39
but of course the public don’t know that

17:41
because there’s no signage, there’s no education.

17:44
So that strikes me as part of the challenge

17:47
and how we as an industry adopt

17:51
that responsibility.

17:53
I’m not not sure how that would work.

17:55
What, do you have a feel on that, Wes?

17:58
Yeah, I think, I think one of the key parts

18:02
of making sure is make we internally

18:05
between our supply chain partners

18:07
as a cleaning service provider,

18:09
get a good thorough understanding of

18:10
what technology’s out there.

18:11
This event showcases what’s out there at the moment,

18:14
the new innovation, new tech, what’s happening,

18:16
make sure we have a really good understanding,

18:18
good relationship with the partners we want to deal with,

18:20
and make sure we ourselves have the right knowledge.

18:23
It’s then gotta be passed down within the organization

18:25
to our operational teams

18:26
who are effectively using this correctly.

18:28
And then more importantly, it’s also gotta translate into

18:31
our sales and marketing teams.

18:32
And, and the messaging

18:33
that we utilize is not just about consultative selling,

18:36
but actually educationally consultative selling,

18:39
being bit bit of education to the customer base,

18:41
your existing customers, new customers that are out there

18:44
when we’re introducing new technology is making sure we are

18:47
educating and getting the message correct.

18:48
Not everybody will understand the very high tech levels

18:51
of it, but being able to distill it in a way

18:53
that our customers can adopt, understand it correctly,

18:56
and then finding the right practical applications and,

19:00
and then making sure that messaging lands so

19:03
that we can get those applications used.

19:05
I think there is a balance that needs to be found between

19:08
the adoption of technology and,

19:11
and the visual cleaning that needs

19:13
to be taking place in the background.

19:14
And the two have to almost coincide together

19:16
because there’s always gonna be that requirement

19:18
to see the cleaning taking place in some respect or another.

19:22
And it’s finding a balance on where to use tech

19:24
and where to have that openly visual cleaning aspect.

19:27
Cleaners have certainly come to the forefront since Covid

19:31
and certainly the, the cleaning operative

19:33
and the cleaning industry is seen in perhaps a,

19:36
a more essential light than what it probably used to be,

19:38
which was hidden outta sight outta mind.

19:40
Where now with the adoption of it,

19:42
there is a bit of a wean off.

19:43
You know, there’s not as much sanitization

19:45
and disinfecting going on

19:46
because cus companies are having to take a step off on that.

19:50
But we have to make sure that we still keep reminding them

19:53
of how important the industry is

19:54
and cleaning s are and the processes are.

19:57
Yeah. So IPC products have to be effective

20:01
and cost effective.

20:04
Um, Duncan, you know, you are,

20:06
you are right at the forefront of developing

20:08
that these types of products.

20:10
Picking up on Wes’ point about people wanting to be seen

20:14
to be cleaning as well.

20:15
Does, does that, does the whole thing,

20:17
does the whole thing have to work together

20:20
or do these, um, products

20:22
that you can leave on surfaces for longer?

20:25
Do they have a place, you know, how, how’s

20:27
that all gonna pan out in terms of public confidence?

20:31
Hmm, Nice. Easy question.

20:35
Yeah, absolutely. Um, well there’s, there’s a lot of IPC,

20:39
you know, products and solutions

20:41
and services in this space,

20:42
which all which all have a place, right?

20:44
And in terms of the visibility of it, you know, a lot

20:48
of it does come back to training education again, you know,

20:51
and, and making sure that also our, our own sort

20:54
of cleaning professionals are, are advocates

20:56
of the products that they use.

20:57
And the best way we can do that is by helping them

21:00
to understand, you know, the, some of the science

21:02
and some of the methodology behind that.

21:04
Um, I think there’s a, there’s a lot

21:07
of potentially missed opportunities in with some

21:10
of the products we currently have within the IPC space.

21:12
’cause we have some very effective products,

21:14
but they’re not necessarily always used in the best way.

21:17
And sometimes that can also result in overuse

21:19
of chemical wastage, which obviously comes at a cost.

21:22
So by making sure that we inform best method in terms

21:26
of making sure that you only use for, you know, the, the,

21:29
the absolute necessary quantity of a chemical.

21:31
And maybe let’s say when it comes to disinfection, you know,

21:34
it’s about using disinfectants, um,

21:37
in the right place at the right time

21:38
and maybe then using those in combination

21:40
with other chemicals for cleaning, for example.

21:43
But naturally you can get the best of both worlds

21:45
because we did, we, we know we’ve, we’ve come across a lot

21:47
of customers coming back to us saying, okay, during the,

21:50
the height of a pandemic, we were using almost exclusively

21:53
disinfectants on all of our surfaces.

21:55
And I think what we’re, what we’re now seeing is almost a

21:57
pendulum swing b to the other side, where along with going,

22:00
well a lot of those disinfectants,

22:02
’cause they’re quite reactive chemicals,

22:03
they’re not necessarily very compatible

22:05
with a lot of the surfaces.

22:06
It’s creating some issues for us now.

22:08
We want to move away from that entirely.

22:10
And I think what we’re trying to bring into the,

22:12
into the conversation is saying, well,

22:14
don’t move away from these entirely

22:16
’cause there’s a reason they were there in the first place,

22:18
but you should, working with them more smartly

22:20
and using them in combination with other processes

22:23
and it becomes a system, it becomes a, you know,

22:26
a a combination of parts so bigger than for some

22:29
of its parts in terms of, you know,

22:30
the right right methodology, the right products,

22:33
um, the right education.

22:35
And I think that way we can,

22:36
we can make some pretty quick progress.

22:38
So it’s kind of my low hanging fruit for me.

22:40
You know, I see new products continually entering the space

22:44
in IPC and that’s a great future solution.

22:46
We have a lot of immediate opportunities in terms

22:49
of just showing

22:50
how the existing products can be

22:52
used in a much more effective way. Yeah.

22:54
And Matt, in your role, how,

22:57
what role does the manufacturer

22:58
and the developer have in that sort of training

23:01
and education process in helping you

23:03
select the correct products

23:05
and then helping you inform your

23:08
frontline staff in how they should be used?

23:11
So Typically any manufacturer,

23:15
they’ll supply the product along with training.

23:18
So if, if any good manufacturer

23:20
that you’re purchasing from now today supplies

23:22
that training, please take advantage of it.

23:25
Um, although hard work has already been done in terms

23:28
of making it, um, accessible for people to be able to learn

23:33
how to use the the product correctly, I think one

23:36
of the things that we learned from the pandemic is the

23:39
misunderstanding around what products do what.

23:41
So there was an awful lot of people buying, um,

23:44
disinfectants, but that product was there

23:47
to tackle a bacteria.

23:50
Well, co covid was a virus, so we were potentially,

23:54
or really using the wrong products.

23:57
So there is some education required from the manufacturers

23:59
to ensure that we are purchasing the right, um, products

24:03
and materials to tackle whatever we’re dealing with.

24:06
But having, taking advantage of their training, uh,

24:10
materials helps us deliver that message

24:13
to the frontline cleaning operatives.

24:15
Um, there was another bit to your question,

24:17
which I wasn’t sure whether I’ve answered now. Um,

24:20
Yeah. Well, and how do

24:21
you pass that information on

24:22
to your frontline team?

24:24
Yeah, so any good cleaning contractor should be

24:29
training their staff anyway as a minimum.

24:31
Um, I think one of the things that came out of it is

24:34
that maybe the, the training in some cases

24:37
wasn’t as great as others.

24:39
Um, if, if what we’re asking our operatives

24:43
to do is sign a box, uh, sign a form to say that we’ve gone

24:47
through cost assessments and method statements

24:49
and that’s as much as their training consists, then

24:52
that might probably not be enough.

24:55
Um, we can’t rely on that level of training.

24:57
It does require that little bit extra.

25:00
So there, there’s probably gonna be a little bit

25:02
of a plug now to my colleague sat across there

25:04
from, from Bix.

25:06
Um, in terms of chemical competency, that’s,

25:09
that’s a good starting base for understanding

25:12
what chemicals do, what, how to prepare them correctly, how

25:15
to apply them some, something as simple as contact time.

25:20
Nobody, you talk to people

25:21
and they don’t even realize that there’s a contact time

25:23
for, for products.

25:24
So spray, wipe

25:26
and dry, that’s, that isn’t necessarily gonna be enough.

25:29
So Making sure that we have a, a robust training program,

25:34
make sure everyone is captured in all of that.

25:36
What skills do they need to be able to perform their job?

25:40
Chemical competencies, just the minimum,

25:42
the ACT app application of products, um, whether

25:45
that be d wiping, damp mopping, whatever that might be.

25:48
Make sure that that’s all covered.

25:50
Um, don’t just take it for granted that they clean at home,

25:53
that they mean they know what

25:54
they’re doing in the workplace.

25:56
’cause it’s, it’s completely different out there.

25:57
We’re asking them to do above

25:59
and beyond what they do at home.

26:01
And can, if I can just jump in there, the other thing

26:03
that underpins a lot of this is terminology, right?

26:05
The way that we refer to the products

26:07
and the processes, you know, what do we mean

26:09
by when we say cleaning or a disinfectant or a sanitizer?

26:12
I mean, even within disinfectants you have low level

26:15
disinfectants, medium high,

26:17
and they all have different scopes

26:18
of antimicrobial activity.

26:20
And I think that car terminology is more important than ever

26:23
before, particularly when it comes to preparing

26:25
for the next pandemic because, you know,

26:27
the SARS-CoV-2 virus was, um, you know, something

26:30
that could be killed by a lot of existing chemistries,

26:32
but there’s no guarantee

26:33
that those same chemistries are gonna be capable

26:35
of killing the next pathogen responsible

26:38
for the next pandemic, which I think is

26:40
somewhat of an inevitability.

26:42
So it’s also making sure that we are best positioned

26:45
to select the right chemistries, which have, you know,

26:47
the broadest possible spectrum of antimicrobial activity

26:51
to account for the multitude

26:52
of possibilities we may encounter in the future.

26:56
And different environments require different solutions.

26:58
That’s correct. Yeah,

27:02
I think, I think, um, Sorry, I was just gonna add

27:05
that we we’re effectively putting our

27:07
operatives on the front line.

27:08
It’s a, it is a dangerous place, da dangerous environment

27:11
that we’re putting them into.

27:13
Um, so the, the training not necessarily from a, um,

27:17
quality output

27:18
or whether we’ve actually determined

27:20
that we’ve actually killed the virus, we’re, we’re intending

27:23
to kill, but it’s actually first

27:25
and foremost protecting our staff.

27:28
So the training is there to ensure

27:29
that they turn up the following day, we carry on that,

27:32
that essential work that they’re doing.

27:34
So the training for, for, for first

27:38
and foremost has to be about how to protect themselves in,

27:41
in what effectively is a dangerous environment.

27:44
Yeah, it’s worth that.

27:45
In addition to bs, the BCC also have a plethora

27:49
of training courses there to support.

27:51
But when we talk about technology

27:52
and we talk about products, then if you, if you take the,

27:56
um, IWSA as an example, our members are real experts

28:01
in washroom maintenance, uh,

28:04
and they will be able to identify the best mix

28:07
of treatments for those washroom.

28:09
So whether it’s a technological in terms

28:11
of an air sterilization or touchless systems,

28:15
or whether it’s actual products, talk to our members

28:18
of the IDSA

28:20
and you know, it comes free as part of the service.

28:22
They supply a great service, but they will offer advice

28:26
and support and they’re experts in, in what needs

28:29
to happen in, in these situations to talk to the experts.

28:33
And that will help everybody maintain a

28:36
much better environment.

28:38
Yeah, it’s an excellent point.

28:39
I mean, the IWSA is now a member

28:41
of the British Cleaning Council.

28:42
The British Cleaning Council has a huge number

28:45
of associations under its umbrella that, uh,

28:48
can offer an enormous amount of advice on, on, uh, product

28:52
selection, training, education, et cetera.

28:55
Um, I’m conscious of time, I want to give the audience

28:59
a five minutes or so,

29:00
but whereas compared to other international markets,

29:05
which perhaps you have a, a better understanding

29:07
of than most of us, how do you think we,

29:11
we reacted in the uk

29:13
and how do you think we are in terms of preparedness for

29:17
a potential second pandemic?

29:20
Sure. Um, so I spent the initial part of, um,

29:24
COVID-19 pandemic in South Africa at the time.

29:27
Uh, having been spent a couple of good couple

29:29
of years here now, and having listened to what took place,

29:32
I think much of the beginning was a lot of the same,

29:34
where there was a lot of uncertainty.

29:36
Um, not a lot of people reacted quick enough at implementing

29:40
that first line protocols in terms of wa mask,

29:42
wearing social distancing,

29:43
making sure they get their workspaces equipped

29:45
with the right amount of hygiene standards.

29:48
Um, but going into kind of the lockdown phases when

29:51
that spread got a bit worse,

29:54
there was almost no talk in South Africa

29:56
around should we keep schools open, you know, herd,

29:59
mental herd immunity.

30:01
It went straight into sort of very severe lockdowns.

30:04
There was a total ban on tobacco,

30:05
total ban on alcohol sales.

30:07
Uh, you weren’t allowed outside to do any form of exercise.

30:11
There was curfew bans, even

30:12
for essential front lock workers at nine o’clock.

30:14
So the lockdown restrictions were extremely intense, um,

30:18
and it lasted the better part of sort of five months

30:21
before you could even go and get a haircut.

30:23
So, you know, it was, it was quite, quite extensive in terms

30:25
of locking down and whether or not, I can say for sure

30:28
that helped curb it a lot quicker than potentially uk.

30:31
I think that’s up for debate for everybody.

30:33
I know it was a big struggle

30:35
and a lot of people suffered job losses,

30:38
particularly in industries where the,

30:40
like the cleaning sector

30:42
businesses just shut down overnight.

30:43
You know, tourism trade got hit, restaurants, pubs, bars,

30:47
um, the nightlife, um, sort of dance halls

30:50
and things like that, they all kind of shut down almost

30:52
overnight and just some of them largely didn’t reopen again.

30:55
So businesses in general got hit quite extensively.

30:58
I think the difference part here is where

31:00
the UK have still stuck with a bit of that, um, home working

31:04
or hybrid working environment.

31:06
South Africa almost went all back to work as soon

31:08
as they could, that that technology led work from home

31:11
ability didn’t really take place in South Africa so much.

31:14
So I think from that side of things,

31:17
it helped did boost the economy a bit back

31:19
to life a bit quicker, I think,

31:21
in South Africa than maybe here, um, particularly in sort

31:24
of the cleaning space or the cleaning

31:25
as a cleaning service provider.

31:27
Um, so yeah, from, from that side, I think there,

31:30
each country will react differently.

31:33
I think it is about, you know, population density,

31:36
housing density, um, demographics, just a whole bunch

31:40
of different things go into a malting pot

31:42
and how countries will react to the next pandemic.

31:46
Um, I do think there’s a lot of positives that you can take.

31:49
Um, in terms of, from a UK perspective,

31:51
they got vaccine rollouts extremely well.

31:53
You guys were on your third round

31:54
of vaccines when South Africa

31:56
were only starting their first round.

31:57
Um, so you take those type of things into account.

32:00
I think the, the bounce back was incredibly well,

32:02
the way people reacted, um, was incredibly well the,

32:06
basically the adoption of those first line protocols

32:08
and things like social distancing, distancing,

32:11
and wearing masks were, were pretty much the same.

32:14
Thank you. I mean, Paul, on the backdrop

32:17
of the Covid inquiry, perhaps not going as far

32:21
as we would’ve liked it to as a, an experienced, um,

32:25
contractor and as you say ex-Air of the BCC,

32:31
how do you feel, you know, you are proud of this industry?

32:34
Do you feel we’re a better placed, uh,

32:37
to handle such problems in the future?

32:40
I think, I think the industry is

32:42
definitely in a much better place.

32:44
I think the wider world doesn’t realize

32:47
that we are in a better space,

32:48
and I don’t think they treat our industry

32:52
with the respect that we deserve.

32:54
You know, with a top five employer in the uk

32:58
and, um, everybody within the industry has a real passion.

33:02
Um, I mean, people say, I’ve got a passion, you know,

33:05
people in the industry all have a passion, passion,

33:08
um, and it’s a lot of fun.

33:10
And you talk earlier about how do we attract young people?

33:14
Well, I think if we could just show some of the success,

33:18
success stories of the people within our industry

33:22
that surely will attract people to our industry

33:24
because, you know, we’re really, really good at what we do.

33:28
And whether it’s wash rooms

33:30
or whether it’s providing cleaning to premises,

33:33
whether it’s providing chemicals, the solutions,

33:37
we’re right at the top of the world with all that,

33:40
but we don’t shout enough about it.

33:42
So I think as an industry, all of us get that passion going,

33:46
shout about it, and, uh, let’s get the government

33:49
to follow it, to support us a bit more.

33:53
That feels like a positive, uh, note on which to ask if,

33:57
uh, we’ve got five minutes

33:59
or so, if, if there’s anybody in the audience

34:01
that has anything to ask of our panel, please,

34:04
uh, let us know.

34:09
Bamboozled them all. Well, in which case

34:13
I will thank our panel very much for their participation.

34:16
I thank you very much for joining us

34:18
and um, our final session for cleaning show 2025,

34:23
we’ll start at 1215,

34:25
so please make your way back here in a short while

34:29
and, uh, we look forward to seeing you again then.

34:31
But thanks very much to our panel.